Amidst fuzzy discussions about locations (“we have no idea where we are… somewhere in Germany, I’m not sure… everyone speaks German, but we don’t know exactly … but definitely Germany”), time zones (“what time is it even? I don’t know”) and tour t-shirts (“Yolandi always wears the tour t-shirt so we know where we are”), Ninja – interspersed with Yolandi chipping in in the background – talked to me about music, culture, musicians to look out for and pretty much everything else. Despite the aggressive tone of their videos, their famous “stick it to the man” stance, and the fact that every other word uttered was a swear word (as one might expect), Die Antwoord were really friendly and talkative (I must admit I was mildly surprised).
As the duo prepare to bring out their last album as “Die Antwoord” and begin new collaborations with other South African artists, they observe the difference in dynamics of travelling with other musicians:
How is touring different now that you have a whole crew with you?
Y – They’re all from the ghetto, and everything is just so new to them. They’ll be like: “This hotel room is amazing! This coffee machine is fucking mind-blowing.”
N- The bus is a fucking blast. We used to have shit buses and now we have fancy ones, it’s quite dreamy. It’s constant fun every night and you have to focus on being ready to rap again. You know when everyone’s having such a blast, and it’s all new, and the energy is just infectious. It’s like you’re just travelling with friends, going to different cities, only it’s all paid for, we have shows every night and we can go out after. We’re quite nerdy, we don’t drink that much because we dig having energy for the show, but the boys go off, they’re in like a dream zone. It’s the first time we’ve ever done it, it’s a new show so it’s got like a different zing to it.
Is there a different creative energy in the air as well then?
N – Yeah, full full full force. Definitely. When we first had dancers, it was nice having a different energy in it. The first dancers we used to roll with were all from Africa, and they’d dance in a way that’s like, it’s unique and aggressive in a really beautiful way. And then now and again we’d have dancers from America coming in, and they’re all different. They were very cool, and some of them could grab the African aggression, but it’s difficult, it’s just very African and you don’t see it anywhere else. Now and again you get drama queen girls that are mimicking it and it’s not in their blood… I don’t really dig the Britney Spears choreographed dancing. It can be dancing in sync and stuff, but it’s more the dancing you get in the ghetto, or at a party. It’s all about getting down and banging to your own stuff. I didn’t notice it until we started touring with these guys and now we’re making all this dangy art. It’s a completely different energy than what we’re used to, it’s just easier and wilder. It’s the best.
Do you think then that some of the cultural elements within your music get lost when they’re put out into the mainstream?
Y – Yeah it’s very foreign, South Africa is super complicated. It’s got nothing to do with the rest of the world, there are so many different languages and cultures there.
N- People just get hit by one thing, and it’s this exotic energy burst. We’re 95% foreign. The only time I think we’ve witnessed the same thing was seeing Rammstein, and I don’t understand anything they’re saying but there’s this full on fury, it’s amazing.
Y – We try to get the essence across because that’s when you know you’re making good music.
N – I mean it doesn’t matter as much because it kind of transcends language really. It was shocking to us, performing in japan, Russia, Mexico, no one knows what you’re saying, places that don’t even understand English, and they go fucking crazy! It just becomes this emotion and energy, and everyone thinks we’re violent and says “Your music’s so aggressive!” and we’re like “Huh? We’re not violent!” and then we come to first world countries and we’re like “Ooh shit”. SA is aggressive because you have to be to keep afloat. We don’t actively hurt people, but you have to stay tough to survive. There’s just this “fight or die” energy in SA culture… It’s an aggressive terrain that comes across in the music.
I did wonder though, I watched that music video, the song you did with G-Boy, and it’s got a fair bit of violence in it. Don’t you think it risks inspiring more violence?
N – Well you’re making art about life. And G-Boy, when he wrote that song, we were making a feature film, and he was getting bullied. We had these people on set who weren’t actors, they were actual gangsters, and he was getting bullied. It happens all the time around us. And it’s an interesting question you ask because he sang the song and everyone was like “jesus, that’s so good!”. He didn’t know how to handle getting bullied, so it was a release for him. He thought of the idea for the video and we were like it’s fucking brilliant.
You know the bully in the video? That’s our adopted son Tokkie. He was being bullied so badly, in the hood where he’s from. And then one time he just snapped and kind of stabbed the guy in the neck, because he woke Tokkie up in the middle of the night punched him in the head, and we got a phone call and were like what?! So the guy was in the hospital but he’s never done anything to him since then, he’s kind of chilled out. It’s just this weird thing in nature. That video was literally a documentation of what went down. Bullying is bad, it’s really bad, and sometimes you can’t let people get away with it, you have to take a stand. We don’t make Britney Spears pop music. People are fascinated by looking into places like that, and our music and our videos are a reflection of what’s going on. But they’re not all like that! At the end of the day our intention – and it’s really important that music has an intention – is not to promote fighting, or tension or violence, our intention is a peaceful one, always. Our vibe, our energy goes towards peace. It’s not nice being abused, sometimes you need to put your foot down and say stop it, you know what I mean? And a lot of the time in first world countries, you don’t see that part.
So if you have to move through a process of violence in order to get to peace, when do you know when one ends and the other begins? Is it up to musicians to just reflect reality or to provide alternatives to it?
N – Yeah you can reflect it in the art, and that is better than actually doing it. The gangsters in the films that we make and the music that we make, we’re saying: break the cycle of violence, speak about it, rap about it, make art about it. It becomes this way out of this hell you were born into, it’s this massive creative release, and you need this in a sense, because if you don’t, it explodes and it’s bad.
But it is also your intention. The guys that we work with, from gangs and from the streets, from the beginning the intention is not to carry on with it. This is the alternative. We tell them: speak about your life, and if you carry on with your bullshit, then you’re out. We’re very strict on that. It’s like you’re stepping out of that world and into a new dimension, and we’re watching them. The guys are all trying to prove themselves, and we’re working with community leaders too. But we’re not a camp for people to carry on fucking up and being little assholes and shit, there are rules. You’re leaving that world behind and you’re doing something positive with it. That’s a really big deal for us, to turn negative shit into positive things. It’s massively important. Staying in a circle of violence, a lot the time, that’s SA. No one escapes. People are born into hell and they die in it.
So that’s part of our style, moving forwards, since we moved back. We had been working in America for a while and it was so boring, nobody needs you there, and in SA, people do. America doesn’t need shit, it’s fine. LA is fucking fine.
Does the act of making music represent the alternative in itself then?
N – Yeah full on. To make a career out of it, to tour overseas, it’s unheard of. No one knows how to do it, they all make music with American accents and they just don’t get anywhere. We’re showing them: rap in your accent, about your life, show real life, people find it fascinating. But use it as a vehicle to get out of this hellhole, out of the trap. It’s like they call it trap music, things come from being born in a trap. It’s impossible to get out, and for the guys that make it, it’s a miracle.
The guys that are rolling with us, they can’t believe it, their families can’t believe it, it’s surreal. Just normal shit for you, that you used to live in Germany, now you’ve got a British number, you’re doing something for Luxembourg, you’re leading a complete fantasy, an incredible dream life compared to other people’s wildest imaginations, who could never think of doing those things. It’s amazing you’re able to do that. And now slowly, but surely we’ve done that, and we still can’t believe that people know about us in so many countries.
And it’s interesting because some of these kids are going to make it, and some aren’t, and we’re upfront about that. We told them: we’re watching you, we’re documenting the process. It’s like survivors, who’s gonna make it? It’s kind of like watching a reality TV show, to see who gets to go all the way. Because you can have your talent, your opportunity and have a hot trap, but you need to carry on doing it for 3 years, 4 years and beyond, and that’s some seriously hard work. The only person who’s broken through, that we work with from SA, is this artist Moonchild Sanelly, she’s our favourite artist in the country. She’s worked harder than all of them, she’s talented and fresh and weird… we thought we were edgy! She’s so crazy! Every time we see her, she gets better every time. We’ve been doing this African ghetto pop music with her, it’s called gqom music… She performs on our live shows. Whenever we need an opening act, we say we want Moonchild!
I was going to ask if you also try to work with women from SA, actually…
N – “The best one IS female. She’s the best of the best. I tell all the guys: sorry but Moonie kills you all, you need to step up. I’m a veteran rapper and some of the stuff she comes up with, it’s just [at this point he made an odd sound that seemed to sound like amazement]. She just blows me away. All the guys have a long way to go.
We also work with this African American girl from Queens, but she moved to Africa now. Her friend used to dance with us and told us she made beats, and at first she was too shy but I told her: “Just take the stone out of your shoe, don’t be like that, it’s stupid. Just send it to me. Even if it’s sketchy whatever, just send it.” So she started sending me samples, the first one was okay and the second was fucking sick, and then she started collaborating with us on our album. She’s now a massive producer on our album.
We have these two girls and they’re fierce, the guys need to step up. We asked Moonchild to feature some of the guys on her track and she said no, that she’d do something with Yolandi but not the guys. She said they’d have to step up, she’ll only work with someone bigger than her. You really need to check her out! It’s such a vibe. We just did a massive video with her that’s in production. We warmed up with the G-Boy video, which was real, it was how it is, we didn’t want to do anything fantastical, but this next video, it’s like Die Antwoord on hyper fleek, like a mindfuck freak art video, and Moonchild destroyed it!”
Our conversation got derailed a little with Ninja asking me about my life and the media industry, especially considering how technology has changed it as a medium. You don’t always get musicians who ask you about your opinions (to be fair, it’s not part of the job) but it was a nice break. Unfortunately we also found out I’d not be able to see them on their tour at all (sad times), and their first visit to Luxembourg (Ninja: “I didn’t even know Luxembourg was a country before. It’s kind of small and I was like, what’s this?”). Ninja wished me the best of luck for my studies and my career, and ended with a supportive “I hope you kill it!” before dashing off to a show. I managed to get a quick teaser of what to expect from them next, and it promises to be exciting:
N – “We’re going to be dropping stuff every month from now until next year. A feature film also, and a documentary… the last 2 years we’ve been cooking up a whole bunch of stuff in secret now, just behind the scenes, so we’ll be dropping bombs like –“ [here he made the sound of dropping bombs, and finally said goodbye].
